Traditional Values, Gender, and Socialism

Pantheon Rising wrote:Prove what? Should I post a picture of myself to prove I am not a panda?..

A six year old refutes the argument:

I gave you a scholarly article, you gave me a clip from Kindergarten Cop. How cute. Would you like a cookie little boy?

If you wish to have a real discussion don't waste my time with such immature satire of logic.

Red Aegis wrote:You're equating private freedoms with economic and political decisions. As for people who identify as 'furries', they should be able to be as strange as they wish as long as it doesn't harm another. I believe that everyone should be able to do what they wish as long as it does not interfere with another's freedoms. This is not to say that I support one trying to gain more wealth over another, as per your Objectivist reference. Such and act would be interfering in the economic freedoms of others and give the perpetrator more power. Having sex dressed as a tiger does no such thing.

Sexual peculiarities are one thing. A society which accepts self-concepts which are fundamentally detached from reality as alternative lifestyles is another. As transsexuals find out, one's gender is a key part of one's mental health. Gender differences serve a purpose. Gender is binary.

RedSun wrote:Sexual peculiarities are one thing. A society which accepts self-concepts which are fundamentally detached from reality as alternative lifestyles is another. As transsexuals find out, one's gender is a key part of one's mental health. Gender differences serve a purpose. Gender is binary.

Please define these self-concepts so that I may address this.

Red Aegis wrote:I gave you a scholarly article, you gave me a clip from Kindergarten Cop. How cute. Would you like a cookie little boy?

If you wish to have a real discussion don't waste my time with such immature satire of logic.

Scholarly article? The man started defining gender based on how one feels and what one identifies as. A total detachment from all reality.

This should give you basic info on how sex is determined.

http://biology.about.com/od/basicgenetics/p/chromosgender.htm

Simple stuff really. Women have an X chromosome and men have both X and Y. If during fertilization you get an XX match its a female if you get an XY its a male. Males have XY chromosomes and are usually born with a phallus where as females have XX chromosomes and are usually born with a vagina. I thought you enlightenment folks bought into science and reason?

With that said, Kindergarten Cop was a perfectly good movie, and many adults enjoy it. It teaches us a thing or two about science as well.

I'm not entirely sure how you want me to clarify this; I already mentioned people who think they're not human. Shall I link to the tumblr page of the person who has 13 separate personalities, each of which in some way departs from the human norm?

RedSun wrote:I'm not entirely sure how you want me to clarify this; I already mentioned people who think they're not human. Shall I link to the tumblr page of the person who has 13 separate personalities, each of which in some way departs from the human norm?

Such things are rare, are you concerned that they will 'infect' others? If not, and provided that they are not dangerous physically, why do you care what they self-identify as?

Because society puts up with this. Society creates conditions where people whose mental stability is in my opinion an open question can retreat entirely from society into small groups where they will be reassured and told it's just an alternative lifestyle. Because I can't help but see a slippery slope effect happening: hyperfeminism to effeminate men (gay or straight) to androgynes to "nonhumans". We haven't reached the end of history, so what comes next?

RedSun wrote:Because society puts up with this. Society creates conditions where people whose mental stability is in my opinion an open question can retreat entirely from society into small groups where they will be reassured and told it's just an alternative lifestyle. Because I can't help but see a slippery slope effect happening: hyperfeminism to effeminate men (gay or straight) to androgynes to "nonhumans". We haven't reached the end of history, so what comes next?

You still have yet to tell me why you care about any of that.

Pantheon Rising wrote:This should give you basic info on how sex is determined.

You are aware that sex (being biological) and gender (being cultural) are not identical concepts, are you not?

Red Aegis wrote:You still have yet to tell me why you care about any of that.

Because no society which is willing to undermine the most fundamental aspects of its citizens' identity is going to last very long at all. It will come apart at the seams.

RedSun wrote:Because no society which is willing to undermine the most fundamental aspects of its citizens' identity is going to last very long at all. It will come apart at the seams.

Would it not be undermining the citizen's identity to force them to behave contrary to their nature? How would something pretty rare unravel society?

Red Aegis wrote:Would it not be undermining the citizen's identity to force them to behave contrary to their nature?

The continuing growth of such subcultures, apparently out of nothing, indicates to me that not everyone was, so to speak, "born that way."

How would something pretty rare unravel society?

I see it becoming increasingly common.

This has gone a ways away from National Bolshevism. Perhaps a topic split might be in order?

Admin wrote:You are aware that sex (being biological) and gender (being cultural) are not identical concepts, are you not?

Only since very recently. 1955 I believe it was introduced to mean something different, before that gender was only used in languages.

Make a new topic with your argument in full please. It'll be fun.

Red Aegis wrote:Please define these self-concepts so that I may address this.

I think these self-concepts could be defined as an irrational view on reality. As it is obvious transsexuals do not fit the National-concepts applied by its society, but rather their own view on reality. There are many examples; For one there are those adults that like to act, dress, and to be treated like babies. I personally find these self-concepts quite disturbing and are not to be welcomed in my future society...